[DarthEnder]

So I finished watching this season of The Muppets.

I liked the way they retooled it inside the show and out of the show after the break.

Is it weird that all my favorite characters on that show are characters that weren't classic Muppets? Uncle Deadly, Bobo and Chip are like the 3 best characters.

Edit: Apparently, Deadly IS a classic character. I just didn't remember him.

[kenzo]

Supergirl/Flash crossover was neat. The two had a fun rapport onscreen. Supergirl's dumb love tangles with Jimmy Olsen is bad tho.

[Mr_eX]

I thought the episode was super cheesy even for Supergirl. The chemistry between Flash and Supergirl was great though.

[LiQuid]

[LiQuid]

NXT TakeOver Dallas was the real Wrestlemania. Much more looking forward to NXT this week than Raw.

There were a few highlights from an otherwise pretty bad Mania. First off was good ladder match that ended with the crazy result of my boy Zack Ryder picking up the Intercontinental belt. Hopefully they do something with him cause I always thought he was more fun than his dumb Jersey Shore gimmick allowed. Also there was The Fucking New Day showing up in a 20 foot box of Booty-O's dressed up like the god damned Ginyu Force.



Actually too good for words. Sadly it was all downhill from there. So much amazing talent buried. Shane O Mac nearly fucking killed himself jumping off the cell for a dumb result that just maintained the status quo. Then the main event was a bore. Roman did alright and hopefully they will feud him with the returning Cena now and give him the proper heel turn he desperately needs. I dunno. It just sucks seeing so much talent on that WWE roster but having them waste four hours jerking off the vets and burying all the young stars.

I also managed to get half way thru NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 10 from back in January, cuz I heard Swagsuke Nakamura has an amazing match vs. AJ Styles in it. Haven't gotten that far yet but I have watched enough to conclusively say that Japanese professional wrestling (puroresu lol) is my new all time favorite thing ever in the history of life. Watching even low card matches in this event SHAMES WWE so hard it's almost unbelievable. I will say that compared to WWE it seems like NJPW seems a little more lax on in-ring safety, which makes me a tad uncomfortable. A lot of the hits seem way stiffer and I see guys banging their heads on the mat super hard and contorting their necks in crazy ways a lot more than in a standard WWE match. It's a bit hard to watch some of the knocks but at the same time it makes the matches insanely more awesome to watch. There's a ton of comedy and showmanship in matches too. Lots of screaming. Lot's of baka gaijin wrestlers screaming Japanese phrases badly at their Japanese opponents. Lots of swearing. Like mid-match the American wrestlers are just screaming shit and fuck every other sentence cause I guess it's not like the Japanese audience cares. If it was just ultra violent, hyper-vulgar brutality it wouldn't even be that good but the actual quality of the wrestling so far has been phenomenal. Going to be doing some research to find out what kind of options we have to watch some regular programming from this promotion cause holy hell is it a lot of fun.

[Mr_eX]

[LiQuid]

I keep looking at those Takeover gifs and god the camera work shits all over WWE's. The bounce on Nakamura's knee drop and the impact zoom on the Blue Thunder Bomb. So good.

[LiQuid]

Just finished AJ/Nakamura from Wrestle Kingdom 10. It would have been easy to have been spoiled by seeing Nakamura/Zayn at Takeover since both fights followed similar beats for the most part, but it was just as amazing, if not more so. I'm actually kind of shocked that a match so similar to this one made it into NXT. That really gives me hope going forward that NXT is going to fill the void in my heart yearning for real wrestling and not the promo/spot/commercial repeat bullshit of your typical episode of Raw.

[Mr_eX]

I watched the last match on Raw. It was better than pretty much every match at Wrestlemania.

[LiQuid]

I was about to ragequit after they cut to commercial after 2 spots from AJ/Cesaro. That was such a good main event. Some of the rest of Raw was questionable (why did Vince and Shane randomly bury the hatchet? Did Shane running raw mean anything? Makes the Shane/Taker storyline somehow make even LESS sense than it did Sunday? Why did Charlotte try to cut a face promo for the new Women's Championship in front of the notorious #RawAfterMania crowd?) but at least there were some good call ups from NXT. SmarkGAF took exception to Apollo Crews but I thought he looked alright. Corbin was good too and Dolph jobbed like a pro. Enzo and Cass fucking stole the show tho. Not being a prior NXT viewer I had no clue who those dudes were but I'm an instant fan. Dakazu assures me they can wrestle. If that's true they might be the most talented performers on that entire roster.

The mid-fight commercials tho. Somebody needs to step in and do something. I'm pretty sure every single match had a commercial cut in the middle of it. It's impossible to invest in the momentum of a match.

[CrossXhunteR]

I did not fully comprehend the structure of RAW until I watched some of last night's show. The cutting to commercial mid match pretty much ruined it for me, especially after coming off of NXT Takeover and Wrestlemania the days prior. Do they cut only for the tv broadcast, or is the stream on the WWE Network similarly interrupted?

[LiQuid]

Yeah Dakazu said the commercial cuts are even in the archived versions. The thing is, the commercial cuts fucking suck, but you have to take a couple things into consideration.

1. They almost always happen in the first third of a match. Usually during "filler" portions of the fight, where there's a lot of grappling or selling fatigue/injury (dudes laying around). USUALLY. Sometimes this just isn't true and they cut during a part I really want to see like Cesaro Vs. AJ.

2. Raw in general is a vehicle for program development. These shows' primary existence is to build story between PPVs when the "real" wrestling happens. So we're made to care more about the promos and reveals and less about the actual wrestling. A lot of time it seems like the fights are built around this too, like you hate to see guys going down with an injury during a Raw which is basically a glorified house show.

3. Even with the commercial breaks, the matches that are good are still good even with a 3 minute chunk missing from them. Take last nights main event. Even with the commercial break that match managed to outshine all of Wrestlemania IMO. There's still quality wrestling to see.

All that said, mid-match commercials an indefensible. I fucking hate them. They have obligations to take breaks for the broadcast networks, but they could still try and build the show around it better.

[DarthEnder]

Watching Wrestlemania is, like, 10x better on a torrent. I can watch the entire 5 hour event in like an hour and a half, skipping past all the video packages, hall of fame events, boring ring entrances, and Undertaker resting.

That really gives me hope going forward that NXT is going to fill the void in my heart yearning for real wrestling and not the promo/spot/commercial repeat bullshit of your typical episode of Raw.

That's basically the entire point of NXT.

[LiQuid]

They really need to do something next year. With the pre-shows included there was something like 10+ hours worth of bad wrestling to watch on Sunday. I wouldn't even have cared if all the matches sucked if they only took up 3 hours of my time.

[DarthEnder]

The other thing I have been hearing good things about but haven't seen myself is Lucha Underground.

It's previously recorded, and the wrestling is supposedly really good, but the gimmick is that they do a season at a time and they actually tell super fictionalized stories around the matches. With ghosts and magic amulets and shit. It's like the exact opposite of what the rest of wrestling has been for the last 20 years.

They really need to do something next year. With the pre-shows included there was something like 10+ hours worth of bad wrestling to watch on Sunday. I wouldn't even have cared if all the matches sucked if they only took up 3 hours of my time.

Well...they do if you just fast forward.

[LiQuid]

Watching Lucha Underground. Just watched this triple threat match:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ugpgyh5fIo

And it's awesome, but kind of weirding me out that there's very little attempt at selling or presenting it as actual fighting. It's just wacky acrobatics. Like when one of them dives from ring to floor (or the high dive @8m40s) the other dudes go out of their way to go over and catch him with no attempt at selling like I'm using to seeing in actual wrestling matches. Is this typical for lucha or are these dudes just not that good? I understand safety for these crazy types of moves is probably a high priority, but even for stuff that seems relatively basic like doing moves off of the ropes, there's a lot of measured anticipation that makes it look unnatural.

[LiQuid]

Oh, but weird naggles aside Lucha Underground is fucking AWESOME. Loving the dumb storylines, the origin stories and assorted promos. The Mexican Vince McMahon in this show is so good. I wish they used him more. Cool to see John Morrison (Johnny Mundo lol) working again. I always thought he was a fair wrestler, but boy oh boy are his acting chops just not up to snuff. It's no wonder he never made it far in the WWE with promo work like this.

Speaking of questionable promo work, is it scandalous to say AJ Styles is kinda crap on the mic? He did a quick promo with Roman on Smackdown this week and it wasn't great. I've seen him wrestle a bunch and his in ring work is top notch, but it's no wonder he's at his age and not a superstar.

[DarthEnder]

Speaking of questionable promo work, is it scandalous to say AJ Styles is kinda crap on the mic?

Couldn't tell you honestly.

I was a huge fan of wrestling in the 90s, but these days, my only exposure to it is watching Botchamania, listening to Cheap Popcast, and watching Wrestlemania once a year. So while I've heard him talked about alot, Wrestlemania was my first time actually seeing him.

[LiQuid]

This is what kind of kills me about all the smarks that populate modern wrestling discourse. Everybody likes to bellyache about how their favorite wrestlers are buried. Everybody is beating the drum for their favorite indies. Not a day goes by since I've sunk my teeth into wrestling where I haven't heard someone malign the fact that Tyler Breeze is a jobber. This kind of conversation is pervasive. But none of these indie guys can cut a promo like this:



There are a LOT of good workers in pro wrestling these days. I'm sure training resources for these guys are top notch because almost all of the guys coming up thru the indie promotions and NXT wrestle pretty damn well, but there ain't a fucking god damn one that cuts a promo or lights a mic like the old guys did. From what I've watched over the last couple years the only guys that even came close were Punk and D-bry and they're both gone now.

[DarthEnder]

There are a LOT of good workers in pro wrestling these days. I'm sure training resources for these guys are top notch because almost all of the guys coming up thru the indie promotions and NXT wrestle pretty damn well, but there ain't a fucking god damn one that cuts a promo or lights a mic like the old guys did.

Man, that's what managers are for.

Lesnar sucks on the mic. That's why they gave him Heyman.

[LiQuid]

KO/Cesaro on Raw tonight. 10/10

https://twitter.com/WWEUniverse/status/ ... 5258464256

[LiQuid]

[LiQuid]

Fucking AJ/Sami was perfect. I would have loved Sami to get the win to just set up the triple threat at Payback, but I understand why they finished it this way. They have to build AJ up to be a legitimate contender and having him win clean against Sami (esp. in a match that amazing) is a great way to do that. Also the fucking post-match hype from Shane and the respect paid from AJ in the backstage segment was awesome too. Sami lost without getting fucking buried. Sami might not get a shot at the world championship anytime soon, but the KO feud is enough to keep him in the spotlight. If I get to see a match half as good as that a couple times a month I'm straight.

[LiQuid]

Since I fell down this wrestling hole I decided to check out this week's RoH show and by god is it amazing. The opening tag match was just super fun to watch. Lots of good technical wrestling and well executed spots. Then there's a match between Kenny Omega and a black guy with OVER 9000 written on his ass and the commentary is talking about how they both like video games and "the anime" and I'm dying. The Young Bucks are ringside for Omega and when the ref was distracted one of them super kicked the black guy knocking him the fuck out then he put a banana peel on the ground and blamed it for the guy being knocked over when the ref got wise.

I honestly don't know how anybody can "hate wrestling" in general, but specifically when their only complaint is that the WWE has been horrible for years. I hear Jeff Gerstmann say this a lot. He hates wrestling, yet only watches the occasional RAW. Between NXT, New Japan, Ring of Honor and Lucha Underground I think wrestling is probably better than it's ever been. I'm not sure I even have enough free time to keep up with all of this amazing shit.

[DarthEnder]

If this is going to become a new regular thing, you might want to make a new thread for wrestling talk.

I honestly don't know how anybody can "hate wrestling" in general, but specifically when their only complaint is that the WWE has been horrible for years.

For me, wrestling was always "Hey, it's like getting a new Rocky movie every week."

There are some people for whom that simply holds no interest. Even good wrestling isn't something they want to watch. And I can completely understand that. Just like there are people who don't like any Rocky movies.

[LiQuid]

Well worked matches are probably some of the most impressive athletic feats man is capable of. The fact that these guys don't regularly die doing shit like this blows my mind.



Add in the theatrics, things like ring psychology, expert selling and storytelling and and I think pro wrestling might actually be my favorite form of entertainment.

I dunno how regular it'll be. Lotta people in Discord have gotten me on a wrestling mood lately and I've fallen down a bit of a hole. Haven't had one of these in 5 years or so and last time I did I got heavy for a couple months then it fizzled out just as fast as it had taken me over. I think I might have gotten it a bit worse this time tho. I've been watching as much as I can get my hands on. Third rate WWE Network programming, Lucha Underground, Ring of Honor, I just watched Invasion Attack 2016 (which was fucking amazing btw). I'm listening to MULTIPLE wrestling podcasts. I've definitely fallen in a hole...

That said, if I make a thread it will just be another thread where I talk to myself. I figure I'd rather at least do it in here where occasionally someone will post something about a superhero show or some shit.

[Mr_eX]

There should be a podcast that for each episode the cast discusses every past wrestling PPV. One PPV per episode

[LiQuid]

When Tetsuya Naito won the championship off Okada at Invasion Attack he threw it on the ground and beat the ref's ass for giving it to him. He had this to say:



He's probably the most over heel in wrestling right now. The crowd was cheering him like a babyface the entire match. Dude's such a fucking boss actually.

[DarthEnder]

Well worked matches are probably some of the most impressive athletic feats man is capable of. The fact that these guys don't regularly die doing shit like this blows my mind.

To be fair, a lot of them DO die early. It just rarely happens during the show.

It's more, "I fucked up my back doing that move, now I'll be on painkillers, which I will get addicted to, then overdose on and die a couple years from now."

[Mr_eX]

Krampus is great and you should watch it.