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Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 3:02pm
by kenzo
jinpei05 wrote:He pretty much knew it was Jason after the fight with the Fearsome Hand of Four, he just gave him a chance to come clean.
When him and Nightwing are chasing him and they're both like "Durrr, he's pretty good! Look at those moves!" and they focus in on him doing all the shit they know how to do... over and over again... it should have been obvious then. Because it was to the viewer.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 3:10pm
by jinpei05
kenzo wrote:
jinpei05 wrote:He pretty much knew it was Jason after the fight with the Fearsome Hand of Four, he just gave him a chance to come clean.
When him and Nightwing are chasing him and they're both like "Durrr, he's pretty good! Look at those moves!" and they focus in on him doing all the shit they know how to do... over and over again... it should have been obvious then. Because it was to the viewer.


To be fair, Batman and Nightwing run into characters who are able to move and fight like that on a nightly basis. Catwoman, Azreal, and a host of others.

All they knew was it was someone who was well trained and versed in fighting and running on rooftops. They probably didn't guess Jason because they assumed he was dead. And as said previously, they gathered all the clues first before confirming it was him. They had strong suspicions, especially Batman. You conveniently forgot to mention the part when Bruce filters out Jason's taunt right after viewing the tape.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 3:40pm
by kenzo
Expert martial artists should be able to tell who someone is, or what their fighting style is just by watching them do their thing. Especially if you literally taught a certain somebody everything they know. It was just stupid that he had to wait until he unfiltered the audio in the batcave to be shocked. At they very least, they should have had him kind of in denial during the chase scene going like, "no... he's dead!"

And again, it's not like any of this kept me from enjoying the flick.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 3:45pm
by jinpei05
kenzo wrote:Expert martial artists should be able to tell who someone is, or what their fighting style is just by watching them do their thing. Especially if you literally taught a certain somebody everything they know. It was just stupid that he had to wait until he unfiltered the audio in the batcave to be shocked. At they very least, they should have had him kind of in denial during the chase scene going like, "no... he's dead!"


Now you're just nitpicking. All Batman saw was someone who was expertly skilled in rooftop running and escape techniques. That's a dozen or so characters right there who fit that bill right there. You're letting your omniscience as a viewer taint what should be a more enjoyable feature.

Glad you liked it overall, but you're way too critical. Go watch Wonder Woman and see what you can hate on in that film. That's the best one released thus far.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 3:56pm
by LiQuid
jinpei05 wrote:Go watch Wonder Woman and see what you can hate on in that film. That's the best one released thus far.

Ooh! I hated that it was about Wonder Woman! :)

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 4:08pm
by jinpei05
LiQuid wrote:
jinpei05 wrote:Go watch Wonder Woman and see what you can hate on in that film. That's the best one released thus far.

Ooh! I hated that it was about Wonder Woman! :)


That's the thing! I don't like Wonder Woman that much either, yet this film was my favorite out of all the releases and the arguably the best of all of them. I think that's a testament to how good it was.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 4:29pm
by kenzo
Dude too nitpicking? Too critical? This coming from the guy with a whole list of likes and dislikes for the new Young Justice.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 4:33pm
by jinpei05
That's normal for me as an uber DC fan. You, as someone who's admitted to not being the biggest comic fan, are making some serious nitpicks on this film and that's what's hampering your enjoyment of it.

Just my take.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 4:38pm
by LiQuid
That's a poor take. Being a "bigger fan" of something shouldn't give you license to hold a higher standard of quality. You're really trying to claim that you have a higher right to nitpick something because you read a lot of comics? As somebody who spend a shit load of time on the internet, I have to say that you're discourse skills are highly lacking. Laughable even. Here: :lol:

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 4:40pm
by kenzo
jinpei05 wrote:That's normal for me as an uber DC fan. You, as someone who's admitted to not being the biggest comic fan, are making some serious nitpicks on this film and that's what's hampering your enjoyment of it.

Just my take.
I never said my enjoyment was hampered, just that I have criticisms of it. I can enjoy something for what it is and still think it has flaws. I was just discussing what the film does and doesn't do right in my opinion; there's nothing wrong with that.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 4:51pm
by jinpei05
LiQuid wrote:That's a poor take. Being a "bigger fan" of something shouldn't give you license to hold a higher standard of quality. You're really trying to claim that you have a higher right to nitpick something because you read a lot of comics? As somebody who spend a shit load of time on the internet, I have to say that you're discourse skills are highly lacking. Laughable even. Here: :lol:


I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that if you have a higher investment in the source material in addition to following the creators of these shows/features for the last two decades like I have, you tend to have a more versed and critical take on a particular topic in your area of knowledge.

And FYI, I can discuss you under the table on the DCAU.

kenzo wrote:I never said my enjoyment was hampered, just that I have criticisms of it. I can enjoy something for what it is and still think it has flaws. I was just discussing what the film does and doesn't do right in my opinion; there's nothing wrong with that.


Of course there's not. I never said there was. You are entitled to that. However, you did say that you enjoyed the film in spite of the story, which kind of implies that your enjoyment was hampered. That, in addition to your unfair comparisons to Samurai Champloo and Batman's lack of insight, reinforces that conclusion.

I'm glad you liked it. Now go watch Wonder Woman and see if you like that better.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 5:33pm
by kenzo
jinpei05 wrote:Of course there's not. I never said there was. You are entitled to that. However, you did say that you enjoyed the film in spite of the story, which kind of implies that your enjoyment was hampered. That, in addition to your unfair comparisons to Samurai Champloo and Batman's lack of insight, reinforces that conclusion.
But it's not an unfair comparison. I merely used Samurai Champloo as an example (as well as a common reference point) of what cartoons could be - and that you don't have to sacrifice good story telling and artistic direction because of the medium or brevity.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 5:39pm
by jinpei05
It is an unfair comparison. You're comparing an 75-minute animated feature of a 70+year old comic character to a 24-episode anime series of 22 minutes each. Of course character development and artisitic direction will be stronger in the latter, they have multiple episodes and a larger, more experience animation studio to tell a more intricate story.

Seriously. Go watch Wonder Woman. You'll see just how good these features can be.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2010 @ 5:54pm
by kenzo
jinpei05 wrote:It is an unfair comparison. You're comparing an 75-minute animated feature of a 70+year old comic character to a 24-episode anime series of 22 minutes each. Of course character development and artisitic direction will be stronger in the latter, they have multiple episodes and a larger, more experience animation studio to tell a more intricate story.
You're making excuses. And besides the fact that none of those excuses matter, that doesn't mean all of a sudden I'm supposed to like something more or give it more slack.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 30th, 2010 @ 9:23am
by jinpei05
kenzo wrote:
jinpei05 wrote:It is an unfair comparison. You're comparing an 75-minute animated feature of a 70+year old comic character to a 24-episode anime series of 22 minutes each. Of course character development and artisitic direction will be stronger in the latter, they have multiple episodes and a larger, more experience animation studio to tell a more intricate story.
You're making excuses. And besides the fact that none of those excuses matter, that doesn't mean all of a sudden I'm supposed to like something more or give it more slack.


Oh really? You don't think that given more time/episodes/budget, Bruce Timm couldn't do Under the Red Hood with full character exposition and nuanced acting, like in Champloo?

Whatever, dood. Your snobbery of anime is stifling to say the least And your championing of Metal Gear Solid is all the more laughable, given the ridiculous story telling there. :roll:

Go watch Wonder Woman. It comes highly recommended.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 30th, 2010 @ 2:16pm
by kenzo
jinpei05 wrote:Oh really? You don't think that given more time/episodes/budget, Bruce Timm couldn't do Under the Red Hood with full character exposition and nuanced acting, like in Champloo?
I guarantee Red Hood had a larger budget than two episodes of Champloo.

jinpei05 wrote:Whatever, dood. Your snobbery of anime is stifling to say the least And your championing of Metal Gear Solid is all the more laughable, given the ridiculous story telling there. :roll:
Besides being wrong on both accounts, great job of arguing on track and not succumbing to personal insults.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 30th, 2010 @ 2:25pm
by jinpei05
kenzo wrote:
jinpei05 wrote:Oh really? You don't think that given more time/episodes/budget, Bruce Timm couldn't do Under the Red Hood with full character exposition and nuanced acting, like in Champloo?
I guarantee Red Hood had a larger budget than two episodes of Champloo.


Prove it. And even if it did, what does that prove? Are you only going to compare two episodes of Champloo to UtRH? Talk about unfair.

kenzo wrote:
jinpei05 wrote:Whatever, dood. Your snobbery of anime is stifling to say the least And your championing of Metal Gear Solid is all the more laughable, given the ridiculous story telling there. :roll:
Besides being wrong on both accounts, great job of arguing on track and not succumbing to personal insults.


Oh, really? You're going to tell me what wonderful storytelling can be found in Metal Gear Solid? You are nuts. Tell me what a great plot twist it was to have Ocelot be a triple agent or that he hypnotized himself to think he was Liquid Snake. And one only has to look in the anime thread to see your erection for anime over an average animated series in America.

Why would I insult you? We're having a nice discussion, despite your inordinate devotion to MGS.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 30th, 2010 @ 2:49pm
by kenzo
jinpei05 wrote:Oh, really? You're going to tell me what wonderful storytelling can be found in Metal Gear Solid? You are nuts. Tell me what a great plot twist it was to have Ocelot be a triple agent or that he hypnotized himself to think he was Liquid Snake. And one only has to look in the anime thread to see your erection for anime over an average animated series in America.
I won't even address the individual validity of these pointless remarks because I'm still failing to see how any of this addresses the substance of my arguments, rather than being an ad hominem attack.

Re: Batman: Under the Red Hood

PostPosted: Nov 30th, 2010 @ 2:58pm
by jinpei05
kenzo wrote:
jinpei05 wrote:Oh, really? You're going to tell me what wonderful storytelling can be found in Metal Gear Solid? You are nuts. Tell me what a great plot twist it was to have Ocelot be a triple agent or that he hypnotized himself to think he was Liquid Snake. And one only has to look in the anime thread to see your erection for anime over an average animated series in America.
I won't even address the individual validity of these pointless remarks because I'm still failing to see how any of this addresses the substance of my arguments, rather than being an ad hominem attack.


You're criticizing UtRH's story for being terrible and told poorly, yet you give MGS4 a slide. And that story is BEYOND retarded, trying to pass itself as fine written drama.

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